It started with a simple enough question - Who would you list as the top 5 QBs of all time? Seemed like a reasonable list of guys like Marino, Montana, Favre, Manning, et al until Aaron threw in an older name: Johnny Unitas. Wha? And then I had to get all meta-debate on us... Isn't the question at the crux of any "best of all time" debate really how much credit to give to the pioneers of a given field, and how much do you credit the record-setting achievements of those whose work is made possible by their forebears?
It applies across any field - sports, music, art, even science. Look at it this way, Einstein was a G, sure, but does he get to where he is without Newton laying the groundwork? And the Beatles are widely accepted as the pioneers of modern pop music and many also consider them the greatest of all time... so how do current musicians stack up? Could we have a Peyton Manning today if Johnny Unitas wasn't doing his thing back in his day?
So who's greater? Einstein or Newton? Manning or Unitas? Beatles or Michael Jackson? Walter Cronkite or Ron Burgundy?
The comments of a buddy who begs to differ:
ReplyDelete"Yeaaaaah, Royce, I'm just gonna go ahead and disagreeeeeee with you theeeeeere...you are a good man, and thorough, but your argument doesn't stack up. While both the beatles and Johnny U absolutely laid groundwork for future members of their respective positions, I still listen to beatles songs because they're awesome...I don't look at old Johnny U clips because Manning, Marino, Elway, Montana, Steve Young, Brady would make him look vastly inferior (no way he stacks up against a modern defensive scheme). I do re-watch clips sometimes on NFL network of those previous qb's because they're just that damn good. The beatles are just that damn good - they stack up great against modern music today. Johnny U would get murdered by Ray Lewis, Patrick Willis, and John Lennon with a decent modern defensive cord. So while I respect Johnny U absolutely for the QB that he was and his contributions to the current state of the position, he doesn't factor into the top 5 realm purely because I don't think he'd do as well under the same, heightened circumstances that all those other guys have thrived under. They made a "Beatles Rock Band" recently that is enjoyed universally. I argue that Johnny U's legend is definitely not as bright."
If Johnny Unitas was born in 1976 and had grown up playing Pop Warner football, then high school football featuring complex pro-style offenses, you better believe he would be dominating NFL defenses.
ReplyDeleteIs every modern physicist greater than Albert Einstein? Because I guarantee they all know more than Einstein did.
Johnny Unitas would walk up to the coach during a timeout and the coach would ask the QB, "What play are you going to call?"
Kerry Byrne wrote a great column about how defenses got more sacks in the 60's (partly because of the style of play, deep nine-step drops and long passes and the rules like defensive linemen able to 'head-slap'), but numbers started going down in the late 70's because offenses incorporated short, quick passes and the NFL instituted rules favoring offense over defense.
My point? You better believe context matters. You could make the same argument that if you put Peyton Manning in the 1960's, he might be the only guy from this era who could do well. You think Marino, Favre, Montana, Young, Elway, and Brady could call decide on a play after having their head slammed into the ground three straight plays?