This is all spoilers so don't click to read more if you aren't current on the show.
From Aaron (no relation to Claire):
That might have been the most informative Lost episode ever. The entire conversation between Jacob and Richard made a lot of sense and I am inclined to believe it.
Esau used the same words when giving Richard the knife as Dogan used when giving Sayid the knife...
It seems Jacob is proving that people are inherently good, but Esau just needs to find one person who isn't (there were a lot of connections between this episode and the five minute clip from the beginning of (last?) season)...it seems like all the parallel realities are showing that all these people are inherently good.
My (Royce) response:
Aaron, just watched it tonight - I came straight here to give thoughts
I agree it mirrored the end of season intro a lot. If you believe Jacob that he's on the island keeping the evil entity of Esau from escaping, it confirms the theory that the island is basically his prison. However, the interaction of other people is something of a variable... did you mean to say that Jacob needs to find one person who IS good? Because the conversation as last season began (to paraphrase, Esau said, "it always ends the same, they come, there's war, everyone dies") and the arc of the show (tons of violence, the island is marked by warring factions) lead me to believe that chaos and malady are inherent. Jacob said last season "it only ends once, everything else is progess" which to me connects with him "trying to prove people are good" or whatever.
You're right that Dogan used exactly the same instructions for Sayid to kill Flocke... what does this mean? That they both can be killed the same way? Or was Dogan intentionally aping Flocke's style, thinking that would piss him off most to kill Sayid?
Three things that I loved about this episode:
- Flocke's dramatic, ominous, turn-and-look-in-the-camera move after he overhears Hurley and Richard
- Hurley's incredibly awkward dead-wife narration to Richard... so awkward they cut his translation lines after one line so it would be less unintentionally comedic
- Jacob and Esau's perfect modern American accents in 1867... did that accent even exist then? And if it did, how did they get them there? How many Americans had they even met? Were THEY american? Seems like poor timeline work
Questions:
- How did a ship going from the Canary Islands (west of Spain) to the New World end up in the South Pacific? Even if they were going around Cape Horn to the west coast... that's a loooong way off course
- Esau said Jacob had "lied to him and stolen my body ... he took my human form" - what do you interpret this to mean?
- If this IS in fact some version of - not hell, but afterlife or purgatory - then what happens in the flash sideways? is it them escaping the island? them going back to life? and do their choices on the island (i.e. if they prove themselves inherently good) shape their lives after the island?
** unsupported theory starts now **
My vote is yes, they get off the island here, and whether they side with Flocke or not may affect their 'after island life' in the flashes. I theorize they may end up realizing in the flash sideways (aka reality, the end of the show is being shown in those) that the Man In Black aka Esau aka Flocke did in fact escape the island, and they have to find a way to stop him. Probably by someone (Sawyer? Jack? Ben?) sacrificing themselves and proving their heart is purely good, and taking Jacob's place as custodian of the island for eternity and locking Esau back up.
ok, this might be a little random and/or rambling...
ReplyDeleteWe know the island can move, so it doesn't concern me that a ship going from Europe to the New World ends up on the island. And you're worried about their accents? That is about #233778 on my priority list. Seriously, we got time travel and God and the devil and talking to dead people and paradoxes...and you're worried about the accents the actors are using?
I think you were right that Jacob just needs to prove to Esau that one person is good no matter what. I wonder if they have a pre-arranged test between the two of them. The flash sideways is showing that these people are inherently good (except for maybe Kate, still not sure what to think there) and that Esau is allowed to do whatever he wants to tempt them and cause chaos and death. Maybe Jacob needs one to prove that man is inherently good, no matter the circumstance, and Esau is stuck on the island forever (or whatever the terms of their agreement if Jacob wins). In fact, it could be that Esau wants off the island to wreak havoc and chaos and death, but Jacob won't let him, so they make a deal...Jacob keeps bringing people to the island as a sacrifice to Esau and his death and chaos and in return, if there is a person who remains good throughout all of Esau's chaos, then Esau has to stay on the island and doesn't get to kill anyone else. Esau kind of has to accept (he can't get off the island anyways and this is an opportunity), but got bored killing only a few people at a time and looked for a way out of the deal...that is, Jacob's death.
So it seems that Esau can now leave the island since Jacob is dead, but there is something still holding him on the island. Maybe part of the agreement, or Esau needs to be invited off the island (kind of like how you have to invite a vampire into your home).
I feel like the Others also plays into this. Jacob provided protection to the Others from Esau/smoke monster in exchange for not even trying to leave the island. That's why they had the black powder around the Temple. Esau only gets to mess with those who are trying to escape from the island...and that will be part of the goodness...that someone will have an opportunity to leave the island, but will choose to stay to keep Esau imprisoned. I get the feeling that Sawyer's jumping out of the helicopter was a little foreshadowing of his sacrifice and being willing to stay.
And now I'm saying the Dharma Initiative represents science in this Biblical fight between good and evil. Kind of like how medicine has been able to keep people alive that may have died naturally. Is science evil or good? Both? Neither? The Dharma initiative had the sonic barrier that kept the smoke monster out. The Oceanic 6 were compelled to go back because they cheated...they didn't leave the island the right way according to Jacob and Esau's agreement. The only person to leave the island the right way was Ben (and maybe Widmore) when he turned the wheel and ended up in the desert (where Widmore had the cameras set up)? Both Jacob and Esau can use science/Dharma Initiative for their purposes? Jacob caused Desmond to not push the button and the plane crashed.
more rambling...
ReplyDeleteThe Others kidnapped the children because they could provide protection from the smoke monster. Jacob is the same now and in the 1800's...same body/person. We haven't seen Esau in this century...maybe Esau's body was taken away from him as some sort of punishment, but Esau spins it to say Jacob stole his body. He was left as just the smoke monster and needed Locke's body, or just took the form of Locke's body? Was the smoke monster able to appear as Locke before Locke's body was brought back to the island? OOOHHHH OOOOHHHHH....Esau/the smoke monster can take the form of dead bodies that come to the island...any time we saw Christian, that was Esau. That's how he was able to corrupt Claire and was actually hurting Jack's cause.
I believe you are 100% right about Esau being Christian from earlier in the series... remember we saw the ashes around Christian's cabin in the forest
ReplyDeleteInteresting idea about the kids, and how does everyone know all these details about the smoke monster. Like Dharma knew that the sonar could keep him out, and yet sonar defenses on the island are surprisingly rare. Wouldn't that be like mandatory near every building in the presence of a black smoke killing machine?
Esau definitely only gets to mess with some people (remember the creepy Jacob kid in the jungle telling him "you can't kill [Sawyer]") but I'm not sure it's just if people are leaving. Seems indeterminate at this point.
You think turning the donkey wheel is the only 'proper' way to get off the island? And what was keeping Widmore from coming back before? He said he wasn't allowed.
It's an interesting question as to why the Oceanic 6 had to go back... was it to satisfy Jacob's need for Candidates, was it to satisfy the war and prove if their souls were good or bad, was it to satisfy Esau's need for victims on the island... what was it?